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Here’s a good one for a debate then – read, digest and lets see what you think – personally my opinion is if i was stood on a bridge and someone in front of me jumped off it i wouldn’t be following them!!
Stiffer speeding penalties for leading rideout
By Steve Farrell –
General news
19 November 2009 16:34Motorcyclists at the head of a group of riders will face stiffer penalties for speeding under a crown court ruling.
Being the lead rider in a group is an aggravating factor making you partly responsible for speeding offences of those behind you according to the decision.
The ruling can be applied in any future cases where two or more motorcyclists riding together are accused of speeding. The head rider might be only a few mph over the limit but could be given the same penalty as the worst offender behind.
Road traffic solicitor Robert Dobson said: “Any crown court decision can be stated in future cases. This is potentially a very dangerous judgement for motorcyclists.
“Riders in a group change position frequently.
“If you are riding at the front any group at excess speed, then the very fact you’re at the front is an aggravating factor.”
Ken Clark, 49, reached 85mph on his Yamaha R1 while leading a group of three riders on the 60mph A272 near Rogate, Sussex, last June.
The speed is within the usual threshold for a fixed penalty of three points and a £60 fine.
But Chichester Crown Court ruled he should receive the same penalty as a following rider accused of going 103mph.
Barrister notes on the ruling given to Clark after the hearing state: ‘Although his was the lesser speed, [the bench] found it an aggravating feature that he was the lead motorcyclist, was setting the pace and he knew that the other two motorcyclists would want to catch him up and would be speeding to do so.’
The court rejected Clark’s appeal against six points, a £100 fine and £250 court costs.
Clark said: “This should have been three points and a £60 fine but so far it’s cost me £2,500 including solicitors’ bills and I have six points on a licence which has been clean for the last 24 years.”
Clark’s solicitor, Philip Somarakis, said 103mph was the speed reached by a police officer on an unmarked bike while tailing Clark’s two friends, but the prosecution accepted it was not possible to prove from video evidence that Clark himself had exceeded 85mph.
“The gist of the ruling is that to be a lead motorcyclist makes you somehow responsible for the actions of those behind you,” he added.
Gary Baldwin, former police motorcyclist and co-director of advanced riding school Rapid Training, said: “It’s a dangerous precedent to suggest you are now responsible for someone who’s in control of another vehicle.“How do I control what they do? If someone is following me and I get in an overtake that they don’t, they may go faster to catch up but that is their choice.”
Thats bloody stupid. If you are out leading a ride, you can’t be responsible for the people behind you. First rule of biking is ride your own ride.
Makes me not want to lead a ride-out, not if its going to cost £2’500 each time!
Load of crap.
From the horses mouth…
Here is the guys own description of events from Bury Hill Bikers Forum (I found this via the disturbing the peace forum btw)
Right.
This story starts way back last year when i was out riding between Bury Hill and Petersfield. without going into all the details which will be very boring, i along with 2 others were tracked and videoed by the imfamous silver R1. This is what happened (leaving out the tedious bits). Silver R1 tracks us and two others and then by own admission later in a court of law requests policemotorcycle that was and had been in front of me for the last 10 miles to pull of the road. Thereafter i exceeded the 60 mph limit (which i always pleaded guilty to) and reached a speed of about 85 mph. Then quite safely overtook a car at about 70 mph and then was out of the video eveidence and could not be seen for maybe 10 secs. Now the other 2 motorcycles that were behind me and the survailence R1 could not do so at the same time due to on coming traffic. When it was safe to do so they overtook and reached 103mph and caught up with me very quickly. Ok now comes error number 1. The unmarked R1 radios his marked officers and says “2 females one male speeds of 103” So now we have no distintion as to who was doing what speed. Now here i give the nice officer credit as 5 and a half months later he phones me to say that he has reviewed the evidence and i will only be charged with 85mph. 85mph in a 60mph carries 3 points and a £60.00 fine following a guilty plea. Error number 2, Summons arrive for myself and the other 2 and offence is only listed as speeding, and no actual speed is given, a little lazy in my view. Court date arrives in January. One of the other motorcyclists pleads guilty by post so just leaving myself and one other in the magistrates court. The other gets called in first and claims to believe that she/he was not exceeding 100mph. Court desides to set this asside for a Newton Trial. I get called in and there is error number 3. I am not even giuven the chance to say anything and it is assummed that i will say the same so i too get summoned trial.
Trial arrives in april and both i and the other are sentenced exactly the same for reaching speeds of 103. £100.00 fine 6 points £250.00 court costs and £15.00 for some victim support thing.That was error 4.
Ok so not happy with this outcome as i was only charged with 85 and convicted with 103 i decide to appeal and get solicitors involved. The appeal is against severity of sentence which after 6 months of the CPS keeping quiet, they eventually admit they made a mistake. They say i was sentenced on 103 and should have been sentenced at 85. Crown court last monday should have been a formality as Cps have admitted their error but oh no. Error 5 The judge views the dvd evidence and after agreeing that i was wrongly convicted decides that the appeal will not be upheld. Now here is her reason why. And these were her words. As team leader I was responsible for the other 2 motorcycles behind me and by my actions of safely overtaking a car, i would have known that my other team members would have to exceed the speed limit to catch me up. Strange how i can be in control of 2 adults that are travelling behind me. Strange too that i am solely responsible for all on that road and in no way responibility was ever in the hands of the police officer that radioed his collegue and told him to get of the road. This is the justice system and society that we live in.
Now just to sum up A £60.00 fine and 3 points has so far cost me £2500.00 and 6 points on my licence.
Thankskenkawalskishouldnt have been speeding in the first place though eh? could have saved all the hassle.
everyone should lead a ride out at some point in their life champs. i did a couple months ago and it was pretty cool, although i was tonking on a bit i still got over-taken
I understand that he shouldn’t of been speeding in the first place, but how can he be responsible for the riders behind him??
well exactly, but lets not forget how sh!t this country is. we arent allowed to do anything fun!
there must be more to the story that we havnt been told.
the guy ust have said he was leading a “ride-out” had he not surely it would have been a different story.
but who knowsIf you are leading a ride out and other bikes are held up for something or another,then thats up to them if they want to catch up by speeding.The leader might be only doing the speed limit and the rest can be held up….(happened alot in France).What if the leader is pulled and deneys knowing any of the following bikes that have been acused of speeding?
I guess the only way the coppers can pin others speeding on you is if you are ‘all’ caught speeding. If they don’t catch you, then you can’t be responsible for the others speeding.
if that makes any sense.
bottom line, if you are above the speed limit… don’t get caught
ha ha problem solved!!! Just invite me to your ride outs – I’ll arrive 2 days after everybody else so therefore nobody has been speeding lol !!!
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