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Definately a interesting subject, to my knowledge Yamaha FZR1000 (Rocket), Honda Blackbird, Kawasaki ZX12/ZZR1100 and Busa engines have been used in a variety of cars. There have already been a couple of twin engined attempts with Kwack engines I think.
How about a V8 from two Busa engines? Now that would FLY!!
Back in the 1980’s Yamaha RD500 engines were used in some specialist hill climb cars. I think the RG500 too but I am not sure.
They have been bikes with car engines, usually American Chevvy V8 or the Rover 3.5 V8 (itself an old Buick design). Though these are usually heavy and cumbersome to ride and seem a bit pointless to me.
One mad Aussie even loped 2 cylinders from a WW2 Rolls Royce V12 Merlin engine that had seen service in a Mosquito Fighter Bomber, and made a huge V twin bike. Made the front cover of “Bike” magazine in 1986.
Hope you find the time to make the project ID.quote:
Originally posted by RadarDefinately a interesting subject, to my knowledge Yamaha FZR1000 (Rocket), Honda Blackbird, Kawasaki ZX12/ZZR1100 and Busa engines have been used in a variety of cars. There have already been a couple of twin engined attempts with Kwack engines I think.
There’s a lot more than that too! Westfield for instance are offering kits with blade, blackbird (maybe discontinued now due to oil surge problems), and busa engines. Other companies use ZX12, ZX9, V twins and all sorts. The R1 seems to be the current top choice with kit builders at the moment, although AFAIK it’s not yet been adopted by any of the main kitcar manufacturers.
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How about a V8 from two Busa engines? Now that would FLY!!There are a couple of these knocking about now too, not all of them busa derived V8s though.
Welcome to the forum Tim.
Would you say that the R1 lends itself to car layout. I know that angles are critical and often the sump has to be modified because the engine sits at a different angle to when it was in the bike. What’s your engine of choice (if money were no object)?
@Katana:
That’s one hell of a loopy bike but I wouldn’t mind a test ride!quote:
Originally posted by imperialdataWould you say that the R1 lends itself to car layout. I know that angles are critical and often the sump has to be modified because the engine sits at a different angle to when it was in the bike.
Yep, very much so. Main thing is that it is being adopted by a few people so there is experience of fitting them. Sidecar racers use them in the same orientation as in the car (I think), sumps are available anyway! Also the gearbox output is high and in a very good position to get a good propshaft run without nasty angles (and therefore vibration – a major problem in bike engine cars (BECs))
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What’s your engine of choice (if money were no object)?Money no object for a road based single BEC would be a busa. For a track based one a drysumped busa (drysumping is 100% essential for a track busa BEC).
For a twin, current fave is the R1 or GSXR1000, probably erring towards the GSXR1000 cos there are a couple of them running as twins already.HTH! [
]Thanks Tim. Why do they prefer R1’s or GSXR’s for twin BEC’s? Are they a particularly small lump?
Can you explain the advantages of drysumping and how it is achieved?
Wow, I never realised all this was going on in the car world. Best kept secret! Nice topic
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Originally posted by imperialdataThanks Tim. Why do they prefer R1’s or GSXR’s for twin BEC’s? Are they a particularly small lump?
Yup, physical size and gearbox output location suits mating up to the transfer box which combines the drive.
There are also some twin busa 4wd cars floating about though, so anything’s possible. One is currently for sale with 2x tuned up busa engines + nitrous. Bit of a monster by all accounts! []quote:
Can you explain the advantages of drysumping and how it is achieved?Erm, not in much detail TBH.. Basically though becasue the car doesn’t lean in cornering like the bike does (and cos the engine sits N-S rather than E-W anyway) high speed cornering can cause oil surge. This then leads to starvation of oil from the pickup pipe and you end up running bearings and introducing your conrods to the outside world via the block! [
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Some engines seem particularly prone to this – Blackbird for one – and others seem relatively unaffected – like the Blade. Tendancy is to run drysumps on more expensive engines like the Busa, but not on the cheaper ones. Mainly cos the drysump costs IRO £1000 and you can get 2 cheap engines for that!
Halfway house is an accusump, but they can cause problems of their own it would seem, so best to stump up for full drysumping on a track car if you run either an expensive or an oilsurge-prone engine.Stay with me on this one…..
If they run out of oil when cornering in the car that’s the equivalent of wheelies or stoppies on a bike isn’t it? Speaking purely from an engine orientation point of view here.
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Originally posted by imperialdataStay with me on this one…..
If they run out of oil when cornering in the car that’s the equivalent of wheelies or stoppies on a bike isn’t it? Speaking purely from an engine orientation point of view here.
Yup, absolutely. I think there are 2 further problems with the car install though.
1) the sumps are often shortened slightly (mine are about 50mm shorter than they were in the bike) so you have a lower volume of oil to start with.
2) For track use you can often find that you will be pulling high G cornering one after the other. In these circumstances, where there are no straights for the oil to restabilise, you can encounter problems. I’m assuming that these corners can go on for longer than you could pull a wheelie or stoppie for. This set of corners will also (obviously!) crop up lap after lap, so the loading on the engine is pretty high – sooner or later you’ll get quick enough and maintain a high enough contiunous lateral G load that the engine gives up.
I have read of bikers pulling wheelies through the gears and having the oil pressure light flickering on in the process. If they were to do that over and over again, the engine would let go, same as the above example in the car. []In the car the engines can also often run hotter so the oil gets thinner too – again a bad thing..
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